User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )

American League Owners photo

Not much luck identifying them, I did manage to find a 1914 Reach Guide from the Smithsonian: https://archive.org/details/reachofficialame19141phil/page/n13/mode/2up ... There's a photo of all the owners on page 8, I think the one identified as Charles Sommers might be ES Minor from Washington. The photo above his matches 3 on the bottom (sitting) row, but I can't make out his name in the Reach guide; my guess is Nixey Callahan based on this eyebrows looking somewhat similar. Oaktree b (talk) 01:43, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm off to bed soon, here's the reddit post I made, the responses are slowly coming in. https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/osdwf1/wikipedia_photo/ Oaktree b (talk) 03:14, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Excellent, I also wrote SABR, but they rarely respond. --RAN (talk) 03:17, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Dragsholm castle

In the note for Anders Örbom you are mentioning the destruction of Dragsholm castle and the battle of Seland. -That destruction actually happened around 1660 when the Swedes were leaving Denmark in the years after the Treaty of Roskilde. Have a read on da:Dragsholm Slot. -So what you are referring to as the battle of Seland in 1700 is probably en:Landing at Humlebæk which in the end resulted in the en:Peace of Travendal. -- Sturban (talk) 10:47, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Pskov is Pleskow in archaic english and the "battle of Pitzur" would most probably be Battle of Petschora -- Sturban (talk) 11:11, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

And the "battle of Lakowitz" is probably the siege of Lachowicze. -- Sturban (talk) 11:24, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks again! I will make the changes and merge the duplicates. --RAN (talk) 14:36, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Yes, you "have brought this up ... before"

Greetings Richard:

Our paths have been crossing a bit of late, but I do not understand why you seem to feel a need to lecture me about Commons process. I am a fifteen year contributor to Wikimedia Projects, administrator and bureaucrat, who has worked with deletions for a long time. I do not think I am in need of the mini-lectures and specific directions to my behavior you have offered lately on some deletion nominations. (E.g. Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Cadgepole Specifically "If you can take the time to nominate these images, you can take a few seconds more and read the conditions to be entered into the public domain in the county of creation. I think if you are clever enough to recognize there is a problem with the attribution and license, and have enough time to spend nominating, you have enough time to look at the license parameters and fix the problem. I have brought this up with you before. --RAN (talk) 02:29, 19 January 2022 (UTC)" [1]) and others.

"If you are clever enough" is not a particularly good reflection on the spirit of COM:AGF and not one that should be out in public as it only reflects badly on you. I do appreciate that you fixed the upload templates and licenses. You could have then said "Keep: Licenses and source now fixed, they were PD-whatever" and skipped the drama. In that particular case, the uploader had claimed all his uploads as "own work" - none were - several deletions resulted. I was hoping he would show up and I could help him learn how to do uploads that wouldn't get deleted. He hasn't shown up to help. Instead, what I get was a not particularly polite barb from a fellow contributor.

Most regular contributors are aware that Deletion Nominations are to discuss the issues with the images only. Lecturing the nominator of the deletion is outside the scope of the discussion, therefore I respectfully request that you consider the entire situation with the images first, then if you still feel like giving a lecture, then discuss your opinions of Commons procedure on the talk page of the person you feel needs is unaware. It might be a good idea to read their page too, so you know if a lecture is really in order. You might see something there that shows you why they do what they do - or not, but always read the talk page first! I do recall your prior lectures, but I am sure you know

• COM:EVID requires the Uploader provide the source and COM:L for each image and
• Commons has categories for "speedy," "no source," "no license" and other speedy deletions.

What you may not know is that I come across images while working in those categories and they fall into rough groups including:

• I have deleted other parts of their upload galleries for problems.
• Others have deleted most of their galleries and just left the problem images in the categories for deletion for "someone else to fix."
• The uploader is new or inexperienced and think it is possible to save those images for the project instead of hitting "delete." If I can just fix it with what I am given, I do. I spend a lot of time researching, adding sources, and changing licenses - sometimes doing the work after the images are "deleted" and restoring them.
• I think the image can be saved, but I do not have sufficient information to confidently make changes, the data for which is required from the uploader under COM:EVID, I nominate.
• I think the uploader has potential and I wish to establish dialog to help them stay with the project in an effective manner. (This is the category which seems to offend you the most.)

In addition to keeping procedural issues on the talk pages, I request you take a wholistic approach whenever you feel like lecturing me - or anyone else on the project - as to why we nominated images instead of just hitting the "delete" which was already earned by not abiding by the few simple rules at COM:EVID. Particularly in my case, I do not encounter images or uploaders until after they've been sent to some speedy process, so you can always assume that there is/was already a problem with their uploads. I am sure you remember the new uploader who was so upset and challenged me to go after his other 50 uploads. If you check the history of his uploads, I had fixed all of them except the ones which did not have enough information to fix. As in his case, I have found over the years, that sending something to deletion may occasionally result in the uploader reappearing and helping to save the images - some of them even learn the process along the way and become awesome contributors. Unless you look, you have no idea of the history to the moment of the nomination - it would be better to come to my talk page and ask "why did you do that" than to lecture your opinion as fact on the nomination.

My focus is not - and has never been - on "how many images can I delete" because I am more interested in saving the images which can be saved. In other words, most of these were slam dunk deletes that I am hoping to save. I am sorry you have a problem with saving images for which there is insufficient information - or incorrect information - provided by the uploader in the template, but please keep the procedurals to the talk pages and we can argue this all out forever without confusing new uploaders seeing people argue about pins with or without angels dancing on them. As you are younger than me, I hope you understand the reference if not, please see en:wiki How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Looking forward to future productive dialog on issues not personalities. Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 18:28, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Your second warning on this topic is at Commons:Deletion requests/File:La porallée en 1230.jpg. Ellin Beltz (talk) 02:01, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

• Notes: I keep this message to show how angry people get when you challenge their deletions by pointing out the errors in their deletion argument. As of 2023 EugeneZelensko is facing sanctions for their frivolous deletion nominations that Ellin Beltz supported. --RAN (talk) 19:31, 22 December 2022 (UTC)-

Explaining

Greetings: I have been on the project for 15 years, the majority of that time actively in Commons. I am sorry that you do not understand how the system can work to the advantage of saving images which some have marked for deletion. That you continually act as if I am trying to have images deleted which instead I have taken from the Delete pile to try to save completely puzzles me. We are on the same side here, we are trying to save every image which can be saved. But you keep picking at me as if you don't understand this. Sometimes things are sent to DN which are to Document the Situation. There is no documenting No License, No Source and No Permission. Perhaps instead of criticizing you would be so kind as to help with constructive commentary suggesting proper license. I do not send things to Deletion Nomination due to incompetence, but rather due to this project being a community and cooperative project - our work is constantly reviewing images and attempting to save as many as possible. I am fairly certain you were not here or part of the discussion when a former administrator was removed for "changing tags instead of sending it to DN" as one item of their removal. I do not follow that person's method of work - did not at the time - and still do not. I seek consensus among our community to save certain images. It would be helpful to me and to the project if you would be so kind as to cooperate and not argue. Certainly we discuss the fine points of copyright - but I am sure you can see the difference. Sincerely yours, Ellin Beltz (talk) 19:01, 16 March 2022 (UTC) PS. Admin and bureaucrat - both elected by the community.

Contested PD-US-Gov..

I've typically put things at DR, to get an opinion so that I can use those opinions (when the DR) is decided as a basis for making the kind of license changes you have been. This was because I got told off for making unilateral license changes in the past.

You seem to have considereable expertise in this area.

I have no objections to other contributors like yourself, working though categories like the FEDLINK and Naval Postgraduate School categories, to review licenses (and re-categorise works) appropriately.

The relevant categories:-

Category:FEDLINK_-_United_States_Federal_Collection which needs dispersal anyway..

And more specfically:-

FEDLINK_items_for_license_review Documents from the US Naval Postgraduate School Library Documents from the US Naval Postgraduate School Library for license review‎ Category:Academic_theses_and_dissertations_of_the_Naval_Postgraduate_School

If interested you may also wish to resolve items in :- Category:FEDLINK - Henry G. Gilbert Nursery and Seed Trade Catalog Collection Documents from the USPTO Scientific and Technical Center IA_books_copyright_review_automatically_suggested Category:Internet Archive (renewal check needed) Category:Academic theses and dissertations

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:58, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

FWIW

Even though I started that DR, I do appreciate the effort you're making to try and sort some of those files out. I'm not sure whether appealing to the uploader is going to pay off, though, given all of the file related notifications on the user talk page as well as the number of their previous uploads which have been deleted. My last interaction with them end with a "Whatever babe" response. The uploader seems to feel that photographing someone else's creative work somehow is automatically OK to upload to Commons for some reason, and they're quite a proflic file uploader. Files like File:2019 - Mack Bulldog Magazine - Vol 2 - Allentown PA.jpg, File:2018 - West Park 4 29 Jun - Allentown PA.jpg and File:1965 - Trexler Park Yellow Cling Peaches Can - Allentown PA.jpg are not isolated examples. Perhaps most of their uploads are OK, but enough seem questionable or least in need of further assessing that going through them all is going to take time. Anyway, my point is that these Allentown mayor photos aren't going to be resolved in a few days; so, don't kill yourself trying to do so. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:48, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

• @Marchjuly: It is annoying that they will not help, I can do a few each day. I add each person to Wikidata: Alfred John Yost so we can update: Mayor of Allentown, Pennsylvania and I transfer the image to both Familysearch and Findagrave, that accept fair use imagery. The tricky part will be finding the cutoff point between the public domain images and those we would need a VRT from the city to host. While I am doing the work, I might as well look for obituaries. I loaded File:Alfred John Yost (1830-1907) obituary in The Morning Call of Allentown, Pennsylvania on 17 April 1907, part 1.jpg. The original uploaded should get a Flickr account for the material still under copyright and post under fair-use. --RAN (talk) 14:00, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
  • The uploader could just be real-world busy at the moment and just hasn't been able to log in; however, they never seem to have commented in any of the other DRs related to their file uploads. Files that probably don't belong on Commons are uploaded all of the time. These mostly seem to be good-faith mistakes, and aren't too hard to sort out. When, however, the same uploader is uploading files at a fairly rapid pace without giving to much thought to things like COM:EVID, COM:2D copying or COM:DW, things can pile up quickly. Usually, there's something being assumed that's not quite correct (e.g. it's OK to use the same license for all of their uploads regardless, uploading something found online is automatically always OK, COM:CONSENT is met because they are the one uploading the file) and they then get in a groove uploading lots of files in a short span of time. Sometimes quite a bit of time can pass before anyone notices that something might just be possibly wrong with some of all of the files.
    FWIW, I believe this uploader was acting in good faith, but perhaps they should've tried to gain a better understanding of COM:L and worked at a slower pace. Many of their uploads aren't being used in any articles. They might potentially be used some day in some way, but they've mostly been sitting in category pages also created by the uploader unused since they were uploaded. Moreover, some of the category pages appear to be quasi-Wikipedia articles where the uploader seems to have added their own "original research". It's almost as if they're using Commons as some sort or personal storage space for files and article-like content about said files. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:57, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for creating a Creator page I can use

I'll add Creator:Joseph Cummings Chase to my upload of a Chase work. Abzeronow (talk) 17:41, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

• @Abzeronow: I added that image of him from his passport application at Familysearch. --RAN (talk) 22:44, 15 February 2023 (UTC)